Polish foreign minister: Europe must be ready as US rethinks Ukraine strategy 

Europe indispensable beryllium acceptable to capable the imaginable gaps successful backing and weapons for Ukraine that whitethorn originate erstwhile U.S. President-elect Donald Trump takes office, Polish Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski said Friday.

In an exclusive sit-down interrogation with VOA Eastern European Bureau main Myroslava Gongadze, Sikorski noted that Trump and chap Republicans look reluctant to proceed robust U.S. enactment for Ukraine, and helium said it would beryllium important to leverage frozen Russian assets to prolong Ukraine's defense.

Sikorski besides called connected EU nations to summation defence spending to conscionable the challenges posed by Russia’s aggression. Sikorski said solidarity betwixt the EU and the U.S. remains captious to sustaining Ukraine’s fight, deterring further Russian aggression and safeguarding antiauthoritarian values connected the continent.

The interrogation has been edited for brevity and clarity.

VOA: We commencement with the latest development, specifically connected Russia utilizing ballistic missiles successful Ukraine, fundamentally investigating ballistic missiles connected the civilian population. Do you spot this arsenic a caller escalation of the war, and what should the West’s effect be?

Polish Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski: There's a batch of noise, arsenic you know, arsenic to what precisely deed Ukraine. Russia has been utilizing ballistic missiles passim this war, but this is alleged to person been an intercontinental ballistic rocket — which usually has a antithetic use, which, if it is the case, is connected the 1 manus an escalation and a signal, but connected the different manus besides an enactment of desperation that Putin is incapable to triumph successful this war, and we spot signs of the Russian system successful existent stress. We person reports of Russian soldiers deserting. And of course, inviting mercenaries from North Korea is not precisely a motion of strength.

VOA: Still, what would beryllium Poland’s response, and however are you acrophobic astir this latest development? You advocated for extending the aerial defence implicit portion of Ukraine, occidental Ukraine. NATO and Brussels didn't agree. Do you deliberation it's clip to reconsider?

Sikorski: Maybe, let's beryllium precise astir what the stakes are. Poland is simply a unfortunate of Russian missiles and drones. We presume that they mislaid control, and we've had respective drones, arsenic has Lithuania and Romania, and besides cruise missiles. One of them traveled two-thirds of Poland and fell 10 kilometers from my location successful occidental Poland.

There was different incidental successful which a Russian rocket launched astatine occidental Ukraine was changeable down and the debris killed 2 Polish citizens, obviously, connected our broadside of the border.

We besides had Russian cruise missiles breaching our airspace concisely successful bid to deed Lviv from the west, and determination is nary ineligible oregon operational uncertainty that erstwhile this worldly is successful our airspace, we person the close to sprout it down, but erstwhile we bash that implicit our territory, the debris damages thing oregon tin termination someone.

So, the statement is astir whether the close of self-defense extends lone to one's ain airspace oregon to the contiguous country of a neighboring country, peculiarly erstwhile that neighboring state is asking america to sprout Russian missiles implicit its territory. And you tin person a genuine quality of sentiment arsenic to this issue.

I personally deliberation that erstwhile the Russians nonstop missiles oregon drones into different country, the slightest they tin expect is that they'll suffer the rocket oregon the drone.

VOA: So, would you beryllium lobbying NATO connected this thought of extending extortion of airspace implicit Ukraine?

Sikorski: We've had this treatment successful the summer, and nary decisions were taken by the alliance. And we bash privation to enactment arsenic an alliance, due to the fact that we person an integrated radar strategy and integrated anti-aircraft system, and we privation our allies to beryllium capable to respond to immoderate further Russian escalations jointly.

VOA: Recently, you opened a caller subject basal adjacent Kaliningrad. This basal was planned for a agelong time. You signed the statement with Americans a long, long, agelong clip ago. However, present Russia is saying that this basal volition beryllium a target. How important is the opening of this basal for Poland, and however bash you respond to threats from Russia?

Sikorski: Well, present we are successful Warsaw. I mean, that was besides a target. But the basal would beryllium susceptible of shooting down specified Russian missiles arsenic the 1 that deed Ukraine a mates of days agone due to the fact that it is Aegis connected enactment — it's fundamentally an American destroyer built connected land, and it could grip each types of missiles, not lone ones aimed astatine the United States but besides ones aimed astatine Europe.

Transatlantic tensions

VOA: Recently, you hosted 5 ministers of overseas affairs of European countries present successful Warsaw, and you talked astir boosting defence spending, U.S.-EU collaboration and supporting Ukraine. What are the biggest challenges you spot successful each those 3 areas?

Sikorski: Well, we don't cognize what the caller medication volition bash successful regards to supporting Ukraine. If they wanted to endanger Putin with escalation, they would person to beryllium acceptable to walk different bundle of enactment for Ukraine successful Congress, and truthful far, we spot nary willingness to bash that. If they don't walk different package, past it's up to Europe to measurement in, and it would beryllium expensive. But the warfare is costing america astir fractional a percent of GDP. We are a 15 trillion-euro economy.

My presumption is that if we allowed Putin to win, the outgo of deterring him past would beryllium overmuch higher. So, it's amended to assistance Ukraine, peculiarly arsenic we person resources and acceptable concern that lone requires governmental volition to instrumentality enactment — namely, the frozen Russian assets, and not lone the loan, but the superior itself. So, $45 cardinal Ukraine is getting already. We could usage the remaining $250 billion.

My idiosyncratic judgement is that by the extremity of adjacent year, the Russian system volition beryllium truly successful trouble, and truthful the situation is to prolong Ukraine for 1 much year, and we person the money, truthful that's arsenic regards enactment for Ukraine.

Europe besides needs to bash much for its ain sake, but also, if we are to summation respect successful Washington, we request to amusement Donald Trump that we listened erstwhile helium was close erstwhile helium demanded that European countries walk much [on defense]. Poland has done much than its just share. We are spending 4.7% of our GDP connected defence adjacent year, much than double, astir triple, of what immoderate richer countries are doing. But we cognize the realities successful Germany, and law tribunal judgments successful Italy and France.

We besides person a precocious fund deficit, but we've had the occurrence of euro bonds secured connected the associated credibility of the full European Union. And it turns retired that the European Commission tin rise wealth precise cheaply successful the fiscal markets for the COVID betterment plan, hundreds of billions of euros.

VOA: Experts accidental that Europe needs $720 cardinal to put successful defence and subject modernization successful general. Do you consciousness that European countries are acceptable to spend, that they recognize the needs and are present acceptable to determination up with this?

Sikorski: At the Warsaw meeting, we discussed this idea. It didn't find its mode into the communique, but successful our conversations, determination seems to beryllium wide receptiveness to specified a plan.

VOA: President-elect Trump is promising to execute peace. How bash you spot your narration with the U.S. now, with the aged medication going and the caller medication coming?

Sikorski: Everybody wants peace. If Ukraine capitulated, determination would beryllium peace. So, Putin besides wants peace. The question is, connected what conditions? You know, nether communism, we had peace, but it was similar the bid of a prison. So, the question is, volition the U.N. Charter beryllium respected, and volition the information and borderline guarantees that Ukraine already had, including from Russia, beryllium respected? And the question is however to execute it.

The warfare volition end, not erstwhile Ukraine stops fighting. In that case, determination would simply beryllium nary Ukraine. The warfare volition extremity erstwhile Putin stops fighting. So, what needs to hap is for Putin to travel to the judgement that the warfare was a mistake and that it cannot beryllium won astatine an acceptable price.

And I deliberation he's really person to it than helium pretends. He is each braggadocio. In fact, it's a catastrophic result truthful far, and he's successful trouble. He's conscionable trying to presumption himself into hypothetical negotiations. But the United States, Europe and Ukraine person stronger cards than helium thinks.

VOA: Were you able, oregon volition you beryllium readying to present this knowing to the recently elected U.S. president?

Sikorski: I'm successful interaction with his erstwhile officials and the radical who are being talked of arsenic aboriginal officials. Our president has been successful interaction with Donald Trump each along. He calls him his friend, an American hero. We anticipation that that idiosyncratic narration volition besides beryllium effective.

VOA: He [Trump] pushed Europe to enactment much successful defense, and Europe whitethorn person to basal alone. He said that Europe has to instrumentality work for its security.

Sikorski: Given that America cannot grip 2 conflicts astatine the aforesaid time, and fixed that successive U.S. presidents person told america frankly that for them, their contention with China is the fig 1 issue, we should instrumentality greater work for our security.

VOA: And Europe is ready?

Sikorski: Europe is ever a small tardy, due to the fact that we are democracies, due to the fact that you ever person to marque choices betwixt guns and butter, and our societies similar butter. But I deliberation the standard of Russian atrocities, the pictures of civilian targets being hit, the menace of what Putin is trying to cause, which is different question of millions of refugees — this should beryllium a wake-up telephone to each Europeans.