‘Call it genocide or don’t call it genocide, it’s criminal’: Journalist Gideon Levy on Gaza, Israel and the path to peace

A fragile ceasefire and missed opportunities

The league began connected a cautiously optimistic note, with Sarna bringing up the caller ceasefire betwixt Israel and Hamas. “The New Year has begun with a glimmer of hope. There is simply a ceasefire, and the ceasefire is truthful acold holding,” Sarna said, asking Levy wherefore the ceasefire wasn’t achieved earlier.

“It’s a very, precise elemental struggle that could person been resolved galore years ago,” responded Levy, saying that portion the merchandise of Israeli hostages and Palestinian prisoners was a affirmative development, the Israeli authorities was reluctant to determination to the 2nd and 3rd phases of the ceasefire. “The authorities of Israel does not privation to extremity neither the warfare nor the subject beingness successful Gaza,” helium said.

He besides criticised erstwhile US President Donald Trump’s proposition of transferring Palestinians to Egypt and Jordan. “The full thought of transferring radical is sick. The full thought of taking people, uprooting them from their place, and putting them determination other is sick,” helium said.

Sarna shifted the absorption to Israel’s consciousness of security, asking whether the state felt harmless pursuing its efforts aft the events of October 7, 2023, erstwhile Hamas launched a devastating attack. Levy dismissed the conception that Israel’s subject actions had achieved semipermanent security.

“Nothing but thing volition warrant the wide sidesplitting and the demolition of Gaza,” helium said, asserting that existent information for Israel could lone travel done bid agreements, ending the occupation, and dismantling apartheid. “Israel contiguous is farther than ever from reaching retired to those issues,” Levy said.

On the intelligence interaction of the onslaught connected Israelis, helium said, “Most of the Israelis, if not each of them aft the 7th of October, consciousness that Israel from present connected has the close to bash immoderate it wants.” He lamented that the onslaught had hardened Israeli attitudes toward Palestinians, with galore Israelis believing that Palestinians “brought it upon themselves.”

Levy added that the October 7 onslaught did not hap successful a vacuum. He traced the roots of the struggle backmost to the siege of Gaza, which began 18 years ago, and adjacent further to the events of 1948, erstwhile the authorities of Israel was established. “You enactment 2.3 cardinal radical successful the biggest cage successful the world, determination are consequences,” Levy said, adding that the onslaught was an “almost inevitable effect of an impossible, inhuman, immoral, and transgression reality.”

Levy besides slammed Israel’s handling of the concern aft October 7, saying that the country’s effect was a “major mistake”. He condemned Israel’s disregard for planetary law, saying, “Israel highly appreciates planetary law, and it should use to immoderate state successful the world, but for 1 tiny state which it’s not applicable due to the fact that we are a peculiar case.”

The speech turned to the governmental dynamics wrong Palestine, peculiarly the part betwixt Hamas successful Gaza and the Palestinian Authority (PA) successful the West Bank. Levy argued that Israel had historically preferred dealing with Hamas implicit the PA due to the fact that it was “so overmuch easier.” He besides said that if antiauthoritarian elections were held successful the West Bank today, Hamas would apt win. “Israel didn’t privation the PA to beryllium beardown capable due to the fact that the PA presents a accidental of a solution,” Levy said.

The Historical Roots: 1948 and the Nakba

Levy and Sarna delved into the humanities roots of the conflict, peculiarly the events of 1948, erstwhile Israel was established and hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were displaced successful what is known arsenic the Nakba. Levy argued that Israel’s nonaccomplishment to code the crimes of 1948 had perpetuated the conflict. “Israel ne'er took immoderate work oregon accountability for the crimes of the Nakba,” helium said. “The root of the coiled is 1948, and it volition beryllium solved and healed lone aft we look the world of 1948.”

Asked whether the Arab nations had made a mistake by not accepting the UN partition program successful 1947, Levy acknowledged that the Palestinians should person accepted the plan, adjacent though it was profoundly unfair. “They should person said yes and past tried to find immoderate communal language,” helium said. However, helium besides noted that Israel’s actions since 1948 had made a two-state solution progressively unlikely.

The treatment besides touched connected the Oslo bid process of the 1990s, which galore had hoped would pb to a lasting resolution. Levy recalled the optimism of that time, peculiarly erstwhile Yasser Arafat returned to Gaza. “I saw Arafat landing successful Gaza, and hundreds of thousands of Palestinians saw their Messiah,” Levy said. However, helium argued that the process yet failed due to the fact that Israel ne'er genuinely accepted the thought of Palestinian equality. “As agelong arsenic this volition not beryllium solved, thing volition beryllium solved,” Levy said.

‘Two-state solution a hollow idea’

Sarna asked Levy whether determination was anticipation for the future, peculiarly successful airy of US Secretary of State Antony Blinken’s caller comments astir the Middle East being person to information and economical integration than ever before. Levy was sceptical, criticising the US for its hollow rhetoric and unwavering enactment for Israel. “The much wide the presidents were, the much they supported the Israeli occupation,” Levy said.

He dismissed the two-state solution arsenic a “hollow” thought that had been rendered intolerable by Israel’s colony policies.

Levy argued that the lone viable solution was a azygous authorities with adjacent rights for each its citizens. “I americium not a believer of the two-state solution. Long clip ago, this bid near the station,” helium said. He called for a caller imaginativeness based connected equality, alternatively than Jewish supremacy. “Zionism means contiguous Jewish supremacy, and I cannot enactment immoderate benignant of nationalist oregon racist supremacy,” Levy declared.

During the Q&A session, assemblage members raised pressing questions astir the usage of the word “genocide” to picture Israel’s actions successful Gaza, the emergence of settler unit successful the West Bank, and the relation of societal media successful shaping nationalist opinion. Levy acknowledged that the word “genocide” was contentious but argued that the result successful Gaza was “genocidal.” “Call it genocide oregon don’t telephone it genocide, it’s criminal,” helium said.

On the question of settler violence, Levy noted that the warfare successful Gaza had emboldened settlers to escalate their attacks successful the West Bank. “The settlers consciousness that the warfare successful Gaza is simply a large accidental to instrumentality implicit the West Bank,” helium said.

Regarding societal media, Levy expressed scepticism astir its quality to alteration profoundly entrenched attitudes. “When you don’t privation to cognize something, thing volition alteration you knowing,” helium said. He lamented that galore Israelis remained unwilling to face the realities of the occupation, adjacent erstwhile presented with overwhelming evidence.

Levy reiterated his content that the lone way to bid was done accountability and equality. “The transportation is the deficiency of capableness of Israel to judge the information that determination is different radical surviving here,” helium said.